Lens question

SDFISHMAN · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

Alright I'm selling one of my 70-300 1:4-5.6. I have a sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6D DG model and I have a Nikon Nikkor 1:4-5.6. I have the sigma up for sale for $75 but I'm starting to wonder what lens is better. The Sigma is made in Japan and the Nikon is a china lens. The sigma is heavier. Is there a big difference between the 2 quality wise? I just want to make sure before I sell it. The picture quality is about the sale.

*Nick Ruiz* · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

Time to take some test shots and do a review my man! Put it on a tripod snap some photos outside with lots of color and detail wide, half zoom and full zoom then swap lenses, take the same shots then pull them up on your computer side by side. Look for differences in color, saturation, contrast etc.. after that zoom into the photo @ an edge(preferably something vertical such as the edge of a building) And see which lens is sharper. You can read reviews till your head spins but that wont help you much because one of your copies there is sure better than the other.

"No Worries" Post the photos here!

inSANe DIEGO · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

Try KenRockwell.com for reviews. Get back to me when you decide to sell the 80-200 f2.8!

thebdt · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

Can you trust Ken Rockwell? I mean, it's fine, and maybe even a bit accurate, if you want to choose a Mac over a PC for photography--Rockwell turns the issue into a religious crusade, and likely has sent more than one satisfied PC user off on an unnecessary Mac buying spree, only to find that their expensive new machine is only marginally easier to use.

I find it hard to take the rest of his site seriously, knowing how much baseless prejudice he injects into his computer reviews. If he has such a warrantlessly rabid opinion of computers, who can know if his Nikon vs Canon, one lens vs another, opinions aren't equally biased to the point of uselessness? To be fair, sometimes he actually supports his *camera* opinions with actual facts.

I almost bought a Nikon on his advice, but then had second thoughts after reading through a few of his anti-PC tirades.

Anyone else notice how much he complains about the "soulless" lens-jockies and pixel-peepers, and yet 90% of his site is spent rating lenses and following up on technical minutiae? Is his site a resource, or an inside professional joke?

inSANe DIEGO · #5 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

I think I can trust his opinion on one lens vs. another when he shows you pictures from each and at several f-stops. Example...

Nikon 18-55mm II

comparo link Sigma 30mm f/1.4

Are you sure we're even talking about the same guy? I see nothing about mac vs pc on his site. I DO know one Fact. He gets equipment sent to him from Ritz, Amazon, B&H, and Adorama for the specific purpose of reviewing and testing. That's more than I can say for anyone else I know.

In addition, because he tests and writes reviews so much he has user tip books on MANY different model cameras. His writings on what settings to use to tweak my D80 have proven VERY beneficial. I DO remember reading some comments about people who feel the need to have the best when "normal" suits their skill level just fine. Could these be the lens jockies you speak of? If so, I agree with him whole-heartedly. I see it in cycling and cars all the time. Especially in insecure old men that buy Porsches and Vettes that I can and HAVE handed their *** to them in a '67 Camaro with suspension set up for drag racing, not road racing...but that's another forum.

If that fails to be reason enough to check his site, please give us your opinion, based on first hand experience, on which lens Fish should keep and why.

Curious, are you the guy he "duped" into switching a to Mac from PC or vice-versa?

inSANe DIEGO · #6 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

You made me wonder there for a second or two so I decided to pick a random Nikon vs. Canon article. D70 vs. 20D. You're absolutely right! He was so religous about the test, religiously unbiased.

A comparo article from a few months ago.. Nikon D3 and D700 vs Canon 5D
Still no religious tyrades or "This brand is king" rants.

thebdt · #7 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

I dunno, I agree that his lens articles seem well researched, but again I hesitate because of how much material he puts up that I KNOW is straight disinformation. No I never switched to Mac due to Rockwell's advice -- I'm typing this on a Vista right now. I'm just irritated by people who can't see the difference between preferring a PC or MAC versus raining down condescension and self-satisfaction upon us poor PC using souls.

He has a few days of good, seemingly cogent articles, and then all of a sudden a frothing tirade. Maybe he has a mood disorder and would benefit from mood stabilizers?

But more to the point, my evidence:

"
People tend to forget that browsing websites, making speadsheets, writing text documents, sending eMail and running basic Photoshop or Lightroom don't require much of a computer. If you're a consumer of information, Windows will do. Creating content is a very different story. I bang on my Mac 14 hours a day, with 13 professional programs open at the same time and all crunching away on a zillion different things. I can't afford the wasted time that stepping backwards into a clumsy, barely functional operating system like Windows would cost me. Its just not a tool for creative professionals in any field."
"Apple just works, and no one pays me to say that. Apple keeps gaining market share because Apple builds its products not only to work flawlessly today, but always to work for our best long-term interests, not for Apple's immediate profit. It costs a lot less to use an Apple for five years than to save $100 on a Windows PC you have to replace and upgrade every other year, but Dell loves it when you think they cost less, heh heh. Windows runs better on Mac hardware anyway, so consumer ignorance is golden as far as PC makers are concerned."
from Ken Rockwell's Updates

"It's always the right time to upgrade to Mac: As I keep telling you, if I didn't use Mac, I'd never have the time between crashes and virus recovery to do this website. If you're serious about digital photography, and unless you're a hacker who can jockey Windows computers, please do yourself a favor and by any Mac and you'll get so much more done so much faster with no problems. Which Mac? Any of them, even in the cheapest configuration, will run circles around any WIndows PC I've used. I bought Apple's cheapest iMac in its cheapest configuration for my wife, and it simply screams when I run anything, even Aperture, on it."
from Ken Rockwell's Updates

"MAC CRASH! HA HA!!!
The Quad G5 Mac on which I write this website, and do most of my digital photography, crashed for the very first time since I bought it over 2-1/2 years ago. I beat on it 14 hours a day, 356 days a year, with 10 applications open all the time. I was in the middle of sorting out this morning's baby pictures, and I got the dark curtain.No big deal, I turned it back on, and started right back where I left off. I didn't lose anyting, not that I'd care if I did; I duplicate an exact working copy of my entire hard drive every day with Super Duper. I didn't lose anything on which I was working in Photoshop because I always practice standard security procedures of saving (or uploading) anything on which I'm working every minute or so.It took me longer to write this blurb than it did for me to turn my Mac back on.When you work on Mac, one crash every several years makes the news. I actually enjoyed it, it didn't cost me any lost work, and it let me feel some pity for the sorry hoards still handicapped by working on Windows."
again from Ken Rockwell's Updates

He rants on the topic every other month, if not every month. And then there's his article DEDICATED to his religious crusade: Why Professionals Use Mac

Now, YES, occasionally he brings in good points to his arguements, but only after sending the user through a maze of half truths, spurious implications, and the occasional outright lie. Like many users religiously obsessed with their particular favorite, he often attacks problems with Windows that were resolved years ago.

And this is all just a scratch of the surface; I didn't have the time to track down every unfounded dig against PCs I've read on his site in the year or two that I've been following it.

Maybe I'm blowing his anti-PC bent out of proportion, but the problem remains: while he does have concrete tests for lenses, how can I trust his opnion about more nebulous questions like Canon vs. Nikon (I guess a clue is that he isn't nearly as religious about his preference for Nikon as he is for Mac).

EDIT: and even if the lens tests seem on the up-and-up, who is to say they weren't picked specifically to advance a biased point of view? Again, I have no real proof of that, but his gross misinformation about Macs vs PCs robs credibility from his site at large.

inSANe DIEGO · #8 (**permalink**) 10-03-2008

Thank you for backing your argument. That's all I ask. I am a PC user and I use multiple programs simultaneously. My work rig is running itunes or IE for music, AutoCAD, Outlook, PS Elements, and Word. Usually I have about 6 files open in Acad and Word open with 3 or 4 files. I've had Dell, HP, and Joe Blow brands. ALL of them crash or severely slow down requiring a restart at least once every other week. When I restart, NOTHING comes back how it was when the crash happened. I don't know if Mac really recovers like he says, but even if it doesn't either and if one crash in 2.5 years is true, I think his opinion is easily justified. Hell, at that rate of failure it's no longer opinion, but fact. Just like in statistics. More than 2 standard deviations is 99.8%- virtually 100% in the book. He sounds like his reasons listed for thinking Mac is better for multimedia are well supported and not just biased. I have friends that are software engineers at Qualcomm and other places (because they hate the Q) that say practically the same thing. They ALL tell me if I want to stay PC, go Linux. These are PC guys too. Not a Mac in any of their houses. Based on my readings on PC tech forums, I'm surprised you admit to having Vista. You're an exception if it runs flawlessly for you.

My post b4 this one has a Nikon vs. Canon review that looks pretty darn objective to me. Things like flash sync speed can't be skewed in a test. It's a spec. So is having in-camera saturation control. Either the cam has it or it doesn't.

Personally, when it comes to reviews I take everything I read with a grain of salt and I read between the lines. Also, I don't go off of just one review if I can avoid it. Fishman should do like Nick said, but I think that he is smart enough to have thought of self testing on his own. I think he asked the question for a second opinion on the lenses and that's why I mentioned the site. The only good decision is an informed decision. Again, like in statistics, how do you increase your likelihood of accuracy? Increase sample size...

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